When We Were Boys, by Liang Ye

Should we get married?

I’m going to marry you.

I’m going to marry you, next summer!

Mo Tao and San Hai:

One is from a distinguished cultivation family, and the other is a commoner. From the first moment they meet, and they are inseparable until it is almost impossible to see where one begins and where the other ends, until something happens that changes them irrevocably, revealing that the red thread of fate can be a fickle master.

This tale begins at an end of sorts, which is really the beginning of their journey together.

This incredible tale of love, brotherhood and the thin silver threads of fate and filial piety overtook me, and impressed the hell out of me, how the past informs the future.

I found this on Chrysanthemum Garden’s website. It is ongoing, so there is still so much more to discover about Mo Tao and San Hai. She does a brilliant job of blending the past with the future.

It is well-written, and leaves a great deal of thoughts and emotion, afterward. It is so well written that it leaves more questions than answers, but from beginning to end, it comes brilliantly full circle. I’ll fully confess that I don’t always understand cultivation novels, but this one brings the cultivation to an important forefront, relying on how outward forces can cause internal forces to understand that fate is not always in our own hands.

The boys, Mo Tao and San Hai, meet one fateful day when San Hai, who works as a delivery boy, brings a package for Mo Tao from his father. Over a short period, Mo Tao finds himself fascinated, wanting to do everything and anything he can do for and with San Hai. Nearly every money package that comes to Mo Tao from his father is spent on San Hai, whose sad story quickly becomes known to Mo Tao. Mo Tao brings San Hai to his father’s house, where he finds work as a family servant.

But first…

Mo Tao finds that San Hai has done everything he can to earn money for himself and his mother, who is ill. He does everything he can for her, and it is still not enough. This leads to one of my favorite scenes in this novel. It is a sickening, horrific, but eye-opening peek into a practical mentality that has little sensibility, that pulls no punches, that leaves one gutted that humanity can be so brutal, so callous, so insensitive to the feelings of others, and how everything can be destroyed in an instant. And yet, practical.

San Hai disappears from Mo Tao, until one day they cross paths again. Once again, Mo Tao pulls San Hai from a life-threatening situation that will have drastic consequences, later.

There is a four-year difference in age, so the boys begin a brotherly relationship, until they find they are really, truly in love. They begin a sexual relationship, with Mo Tao declaring with such passionate innocence that he will always be there for San Hai, that he will always take care of him, that he will marry San Hai, and San Hai will become his wife, which San Hai finds amusing, but agrees.

But trouble finds them as Mo Tao’s cousin, who takes a fancy to San Hai and conspires with her family (the exception being Mo Tao, of course!) forcing San Hai’s hand into marrying her, Chen Ling. Now, Chen Ling is not a hateful, deceitful woman, but she is manipulative and conniving, with an eye that never leaves San Hai, and San Hai doesn’t exactly have the right to refuse or decline, so Mo Tao and San Hai are separated forever.

Mo Tao leaves for a remote region that is rife with spiritual activity and is gone many years. Upon his return, he finds that San Hai and Chen Ling have become parents to a girl named San Xia. Unfortunately, San Xia’s parents have both left the world, leaving her alone, one in childbirth, so Mo Tao takes on raising San Xia as his own, as the daughter that he and San Hai should have raised together. When he finds San Hai, he discovers a disaster that tears his heart apart. Only a little girl with eyes like her father’s brings relief and comfort.

This is why I love this story. For every tragedy, there is a choice to make things better than they seem. Love, fate, may not be exactly ideal, but even when someone is forced to make choices they don’t want to, there is always someone who loves, whether selfishly or unconditionally, but they love, still.

Liang Ye has graciously granted me an interview. Thank you!

SPOILERS AHEAD!

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What was the inspiration/genesis for/of When We Were Boys? 

The idea came to me at 1AM in the morning. The premise was a man needing to raise his deceased lover’s daughter from another relationship. The first scene I thought of was this man bringing the infant child home and just being very out of it. I tried going to sleep, but after an hour of staying awake, I got up and wrote the first page. So, I wrote the part of Mo Tao bringing little San Xia home and part of Mo Tao and San Hai’s first meeting. I really wanted them to be childhood friends instead of meeting later in life. I also had the idea of the survivor being someone of notable status while the deceased was a simple commoner. Immediately, I knew I wanted San Hai to never become a cultivator by having Mo Tao teach him. I heard there are a lot of stories where a non-cultivator becomes a cultivator by having the lover teach them, so I wanted to do something different. 

Who was the first fully fleshed out character, San Hai or Mo Tao?

That’s a hard one. I think San Hai was the first fully fleshed out character because I figured out his backstory first, specifically that his parents died. I knew that he’d be the more outgoing, shameless one, but I wanted to give scenes that showed that he was still human. I also wanted to show that despite seeming like a bit of an idiot, he’s actually very smart. He knew what Chen Ling was up to, but he still held onto the hope that everything would work out. So, there’s that childish naivete that he retained, but then it’s shattered when Mo Tao told him nothing could be done. 

As for Mo Tao, the first thing I knew was “cold, slightly arrogant, stoic.” I wanted him to still feel the pressure of his own status and his family’s background. As I described in the beginning, he was strict with himself, adhering to status quo, but when it came to saving San Hai from the pleasure house, he indulged his own desires. According to status quo, a nobleman’s son wouldn’t even blink at a homeless kid being forced to become a prostitute. Sadly, when it came to filial piety, he ultimately put that first instead of his relationship with San Hai.

 How long did it take you to fully write When We Were Boys?

Oh boy. I started it after finishing Pear Blossoms Signal Farewell (my first web serial) back in late November/early December 2020. I finished the main story near the end of March 2021. I’m working on the modern AU extras right now. 

It’s funny because I finished my first web serial in the matter of a month since I was laid up due to a broken ankle. I started writing a longer work due to being bored out of my mind due to being unable to go anywhere. So, the first went quickly, but I also had an idea of how that entire story worked out in my head. For When We Were Boys, I had the beginning, and the ending figured out. Everything in the middle though, I wrote as I went along, trying to figure out what did and didn’t work. 

What was your hardest scene to write? —Note, for me, dear writer, I would have been so sick writing the pig scene…*shudders*. Brilliant horror/horrific moment for me in the novel, as well as the scene where Mo Tao discovers San Hai’s body. OMG. 

My hardest scene to write was the confession scene. I’m better at writing angst and pain rather than something more loving. Even after I finished it, I was still worrying, “Is this too short? Too fast?” Ironic because I absolutely hate horror, but I love writing grotesque and disturbing scenes like the pig scene or the battle at the Northern Frontier with Mo Tao being eaten alive by corpses. With more fluffy scenes, though, I struggle to not be so concise with my words and leave the moment too quickly. I’m sure you could tell, but with the more disturbing and painful scenes, I like to linger a lot more. It’s easier for me to do that naturally with those, but with fluffy scenes, I need to constantly remind myself, “Okay, stay here for a little more.” 

Do you have a favorite between San Hai or Mo Tao?

My favorite is definitely San Hai. I love him so much, and near the end, I was telling a friend that reads a lot of my WIPs snippets “I wish I could bring him back.” Still, I knew that’d defeat the point of the story, and I’m also not the biggest fan of most resurrection tropes that bring a character back from the dead for the sake of a happier ending. 

San Hai is just so full of life, shameless about his affections, wearing his heart on his sleeve. He’s the opposite of me. I can be a gloomy person that’s pretty closed off unless you get me talking about something I love. (I’m the same, dear writer!)

Do you have a favorite scene?

Ultimately, my favorite scene was burying San Hai. It’s why I commissioned a piece of art for it. I just love that scene so much, and it was incredibly cathartic to write. Just with that scene, every sorrow I felt myself, I poured onto the page. All the grievances I carried from past pain came out. I didn’t cry when writing it, but it was a profound sense of melancholy. When I wrote it, I was listening to Ai Shang by Xiao Shu. I never watched the show, but it’s the end credits song for Goodbye My Princess. It’s one of my favorite songs for sure, and the lyrics capture the mood incredibly well. I just listened to that on loop while writing this scene.

What is your writing schedule?

I don’t really have a set schedule besides just trying to write something every day. Sometimes it’s something serious that I plan on publishing, but other times, it’s something that I write for fun that I’ll share with a few people. I tell those that are just starting to write this: “Write every day, even if it’s just ten words.” I follow that same advice myself. Even if I write just ten words of plot points or filling in a character profile, I accomplished something that day. 

Do you have any bad writer’s habits like too much coffee/tea/whatever? 😉

Too much coffee definitely, but I can’t function without it! If I don’t have it, I won’t get anything done. I guess this is another bad habit, but spending money on food is something I do. I like to go out to cafes to write since the change in environment helps, but I feel bad if I just sit there without buying anything. So, I’ll buy something whether it be coffee or pancakes. I’m definitely addicted to this one café’s food, and it’s wreaked havoc on my wallet. They have lemon flavored pancakes with this amazing lemon whipped topping. It’s one of the best things I’ve eaten, but it does cost $10.50 each time. If you want to fund my bad habits, I do have a Ko-Fi haha!

What spurred you to become a writer? Is it a compulsion? 

Actually, I’ve been writing ever since I was little. Since I was little, I’ve had a fascination with storytelling. When I was still in kindergarten, I’d tell my parents about my dreams, adding in additional stuff as I talked, and they’d sit there for hours, listening to me ramble on. Soon, I started writing these stories down. I was extremely passionate about writing in elementary and middle school. I journaled a lot in middle and high school, which was of course more stream of consciousness, but I still wanted to record my feelings and the story of my life. In college, I stopped and tried pursuing something for the sake of money. My major sequence went like this: Pre-med, pre-veterinary medicine, animal behavior, engineering, psychology, graphic design, marketing analytics, information systems, and then creative writing. Spring 2021 is my last semester and I started back in 2013. Due to changing majors and dropping out multiple semesters due to health issues, graduation has been delayed a lot. Still, when I went back into creative writing, I found I loved it just as much as I did when I was a kid. 

It started out with a lot of fan fiction for anime, specifically the sports anime genre with all the hot guys haha! I wrote reader inserts, to indulge myself and the readers. I did write for Attack on Titan’s Levi Ackerman, which always proved extremely popular! Eventually, this phase passed, and when I started reading danmei, I wanted to try writing a novel of my own.

I always wanted to write a novel, but I never planned on publishing. I just wanted to complete one. At first, I plotted something on a grander scale, much more like what you find with Chinese web serials that can get into the hundreds regarding how many chapters there are in a single story. I wrote scenes here and there, trying to milk it for all it’s worth. I scrapped all these WIPs. It wasn’t my style. Writing something that was 200k+ words was something not compatible with my storytelling and writing style. 

I stopped temporarily until I broke my ankle five days after my birthday in September 2020. Like I said, seeing that I was laid up, I decided to use this time in between all my school work to write again. So, in October/November, I wrote my first web serial. I completed one, and I thought “Oh my fucking God, I actually did it!” I was screaming all over the place. When it actually got accepted by Chrysanthemum Garden, I was on cloud nine! Someone actually wanted to publish my work! While posting chapters of my first one, that’s when I started WWWB. Later, I wrote a smaller work called Our Lifetime which is only nine chapters and set in modern day. Honestly, sometimes it still feels surreal that I completed three novellas when I didn’t believe I could finish even one. 

Ah, I guess that’s a little longer than what you were probably looking for but for the second question, I’d say it has become a compulsion. If I don’t do something related to storytelling once a day, even if it’s just a little bit, I feel incomplete. So, I work on Notion and keep all my notes there. I read a lot too, which is part of being an author. It’s true when they say if you want to become a better writer, read a lot. I used to think this was bullshit because I simply couldn’t find anything I enjoyed reading until I found danmei. Now that I found what I love to read, fulfilling this is much easier.

Do you write with a plot outline or do you write as it comes to you? Plot vs. character?

For shorter works, I write as it comes to me. That’s pretty much been how all the web serials I’ve published so far have been. I usually have set plot points I want to hit, and then fill in the rest. I write out of order all of the time. For longer works, like the experimental story set in Minnesota, USA, I’m plotting arcs out in advanced since I want to avoid a bunch of plot holes. Plot holes tend to annoy me most when I’m looking at any other story, and I definitely want to avoid them in my own.

As for plot vs. character, I would say that mine are more character driven than plot driven if that makes sense. The plots I’ve come up with have been done before, but the characters coming alive transforms it into something unique and beautiful. That’s why I always tell those that are worried about something being done before to not worry. Aware authors know this. What matters is how you write it. It’s your telling of the story that matters. 

Do you write longhand or on your computer? Both?

Computer, but when I was still working in retail and couldn’t use my computer, I’d take a notepad we had on the counter and jot plot points or write excerpts I wanted in the story so I wouldn’t lose them. 

What is your favorite novel?

Without a doubt, Husky and His White Cat Shizun (aka. 2ha and Erha) by Meatbun Doesn’t Eat Meat is my favorite. I love reading darker subject matter, but both plot and characters are just fantastic in my opinion. I enjoy heavy angst the most, and it’s the one that made me sob for the first time in forever. In reality, I’m not a super emotional person, usually locking them away, but with stories, I find myself able to become human again. 

Who is/are your favorite author(s)?

Meatbun and Fei Tian Ye Xiang my top two of my favorites. From the former, 2HA is my favorite, and from the latter, Seizing Dreams is my favorite. Both are fantastic authors that I definitely look up to. 

Other favorites of mine are Hui Nan Que, Yi Shi Si Zhou, Master is not a Fox, and Jin Gang Quan. 

What is your favorite short story?

Oh boy, what constitutes short ha! In terms of shorter than the average web serial, definitely Yi Bai Tian Di. I know some people don’t care for the style and tropes, but it’s one that makes me sob each time. It’s painful, but I love every second of it. Reading it is actually what inspired me to write Our Lifetime, since I wanted to write a fulfilling story that was really short. Still, Yi Bai Tian Di is a touching story, and the music video for it is sob inducing along with the song. I remember when I just read the summary for it; I burst into tears at the tragedy. 

Favorite writing medium, like novel/short story?

Definitely novel. It’s funny because I always struggled with writing enough to reach even 7k words for school assignments. Now, I’ve found I write too much for a short story, so I need to cut back when it comes to writing these things.

In When We Were Boys, there seems to be a generational gap that even seems to encompass the two boys, only they were four/five years apart? Was that your intention? 

Well, I have a little thing for “youngsters topping their elders” haha! 

I wanted an age gap of a few years because something about it just felt right to me. I know I wanted the younger one to be the one in a more prestigious position while the older was a simple commoner. I know I’ve usually found the opposite. So, in this case, it really is the younger one taking care of the elder when the opposite is expected.

 You seamlessly mixed bl/martial arts/fantasy. Was that part hard to write?

Actually, the action scenes are hardest for me to write. I’m constantly looking at others to see what I can improve. It’s hard to balance between not too much and not enough. I know they’re supposed to be fast-paced, but I can’t just very well go “Mo Tao was stabbed. He struck back.” I need more there, so it’s one of those parts where I need to force myself to linger like I said earlier. The angst filled emotional parts are always easy for me to write. I love digging the knife a little deeper to make it more painful. I’m sadistic that way!

Has your family supported your writing journey? If you have a spouse/significant other, do they support your writing? 

I do have my parents and they’ve always supported my writing. When I stopped, they told me I had a natural gift for it, and I was meant to continue. I didn’t listen because rebellious teenagers don’t listen to their parents, of course! Still, they are supportive of my hobby even though it’s not making any money. They never tried to stop me. 

I don’t have a significant other, and for now, I like that because I don’t want a relationship to take away from my hobbies of reading and writing. I’ve been in relationships before, and it’s too much work. I don’t want the extra work right now. Maybe in the future. They’d just have to respect that I need my alone time where I can write and read.

Do you have long term goals for your writing like winning the Pulitzer, The Booker, etc? 

Not really. I’m not planning on making a sustainable income from writing, so it’ll be a side hobby/career I do on the side when I work a “real” job. Honestly, I’d be satisfied if I could just keep writing for Chrysanthemum Garden. I don’t care about popularity. I just want to share my stories with people. Chrysanthemum Garden gave me the platform for that, and I’ll always be incredibly thankful to them. 

What is the best writing advice you’ve received? 

The best writing advice was from a random thread on Reddit. Someone on Reddit made a random post that said it was okay to not finish every story you started. 

This came at a crucial time because I had started like six different WIPs, and I had come close to finishing absolutely none of them. Needless to say, I was getting super discouraged about my skills as a writer. How could I be a good writer if I couldn’t finish a single story? Meanwhile, we have other authors here churning something out multiple times a year. So, what did that mean for me?

When I read this advice, it felt like someone finally showed me the light and that it was okay to not finish everything. I then understood that this was the part authors don’t tend to tell people; We don’t finish everything we start. On the contrary, we finish very little of what we start. Even since first writing Pear Blossoms, I started many other stories without finishing them. With my first serious attempt at writing a novel, I spent a year on it before scrapping it. I did the same with my second attempt. My third and fourth attempts lasted a half year each.

So, I add onto this advice whenever I talk to people lamenting about never being able to finish a story.

All those scrapped WIPs were not wasted. They were practice. It wasn’t wasted time or effort because all that practice matters for when you do finish something. It’s practice for the big game, so to say where you write your fucking heart out and tell this story that’s just itching to be finished. 

Thank you!!!!!

(Thank you, dear writer!)